tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-649431201703508681.post8631270456605068173..comments2023-11-02T10:22:20.717-04:00Comments on Mike Anderson's Ancient History Blog: The Thirty TyrantsMike Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02072553719998549925noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-649431201703508681.post-82506492211391297552010-07-04T13:43:24.125-04:002010-07-04T13:43:24.125-04:00Shane, I think you have a misconception about the ...Shane, I think you have a misconception about the status and rights of helots. The helots in Sparta were treated far better than chattel slaves, which formed the basis of the economy in other Greek cities, including Athens. Helots could not be bought or sold like chattel slaves. Futhermore, they could marry and have families; in contrast chattel slaves were the sexual property of their masters, which means they could be abused and prostituted but could not marry, and any children born to them by whatever father were likewise the property of the master and could be killed at birth or sold anytime thereafter without the consent of the mother let alone father. Helots retained up to 50% of their harvests and could accumulate considerable wealth - chattel slaves owned only that which their masters gave them and nothing whatever of the fruits of their labour. The list goes on and on, but for the sake of brevity, let me just say, given a choice, I would 100 times have perferred to be a helot in Lacedaemon than a slave anywhere else in Greece. <br /><br />The Athenian accounts of brutality against helots are, furthermore, incredibly hypocritcal. Not only was Athens a slave-owning and slave-trading city, when it defeated another Greek city-state (Melos), it slaughtered the entire male population and carted all the women and children back to Athens to be sold in the public market as chattel slaves. In contrast the subject peoples of Lacedaemon and Messenia enjoyed the far more privileged status of helots.<br /><br />Athenian "outrage" about the treatment of helots was largely propaganda. It was the outgrowth of a foreign policy designed to encourage the subject Messenians to revolt. <br /><br />If you are interested in this topic, you might want to consult my website "Sparta Reconsidered." That said, I am working on an up-date of the site. When complete, the site will provide greater detail on this and other topics, so you'll want to check it again in about two weeks time. Note, I provide a list of key references so you can do your own research if you like. http://elysiumgates.com/~helena/index.htmlDr. Helena P. Schraderhttp://elysiumgates.com/~helena/index.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-649431201703508681.post-83718555184188029732010-07-01T14:51:00.046-04:002010-07-01T14:51:00.046-04:00Shane,
Remember that the Helot experience was uni...Shane,<br /><br />Remember that the Helot experience was unique in the sense that they were neighbors in a fertile land adjacent to Sparta. Proximity made control easier and the Spartans did spilt the crop profits with them.<br /><br />My sense is that the Spartans were so insular, they did not understand the thinking of the rest of the Greeks. Note the comment made by Leonidas about the Athenians at the beginning of 300. Plato wrote that the Spartans were crzy to give women rights.<br /><br />As I mentioned in the post, the Spartans only built these local oligrachies to try and avoid another war and they probably had no concept of a permanent political solution which might include slavery.<br /><br />The same can be said of Rome during the Republican period. As Rome expanded it became more and more uncomfortable managing its holdings. There is an old joke about trying to rule the world with a city council.Mike Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02072553719998549925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-649431201703508681.post-41809923322291404472010-07-01T01:01:00.030-04:002010-07-01T01:01:00.030-04:00Judging by the remorseless treatment of the Helots...Judging by the remorseless treatment of the Helots (Greeks as well), why didn't the Spartans resort to enslaving the Athenians? They made far more efficient masters than they did overlords, no?<br /><br />BTW - thanks for the blog, it a jewel of a find for those of us fascinated by this time period!Shanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728409097850907265noreply@blogger.com